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Off-Camera HSS Flash problem

MatrixphotoMatrixphoto Member
edited October 2016 in flash & lighting
Hi Everyone I have a bit of a mystery Idd like to solve. I starting using OCF in HSS mode and a found a funny thing.
If I use the camera in HSS on Camera my exposure is fine , I even take the flash down -1.00 FEC.
If I put the flash on Off camera using the same ambient settings , same flash . Even with my Pocket wizard set at +3.00 ( White ) Manual flash.
I still get under exposed images . The off camera  Flash is two feet a way , AC3 is set for manual mode. I included some sample images with settings marked.
I also tried to keep the camera at same distance of 4 feet.

Any insight would be great!!!!

Lou Recine


Super Grover  to the  resuce 

Camera D3s with 24-70 f2.8 set at 35mm  ISO 200 F5.6 1/2000 for all . SB 910 flash.


Update…. I re-shot the test at 1/250 at f16  at results are much better  ( 2nd set of images ), am I missing a setting when  using HSS?
Same distance eye...

Comments

  • Neil vNNeil vN Administrator
    HSS kills up to 2 stops of light. 
    So I think it might be a simple matter of 1/2000 @ f/5.6  being settings that are too high for your flash to manage. 
    Still, 2 feet isn't a massive distance between your flash and subject. 
    So this might just be a quirk of the TT5 in TTL mode with HSS, to under-expose your subject. 

    Next test - see if 1/2000 @ f/5.6 in manual flash mode does the trick - then you will know if this is within the capability of your flash set up. 

    OH!  And make sure your software is up to date!
  • MatrixphotoMatrixphoto Member
    edited June 2016

    Hi Niel
    I think that you are correct, I re-did the test starting with a Shutter Speed of 1/250 and working my way up after about 1/1000 that exposure drops off.
    The flex ttl was set in manual mode and  to -1.0  then I just changed the Shutter Speed  and aperture on the camera.

     1/250  f13  
     1/500  f9.0
    1/1000 f6.3
    1/2000 f4.5

    It looks like 1/1000 is the Highest.

    Lou Recine



    F13  1/250 

    image


    F13 1/250
    imageimageimageimageimage
  • MatrixphotoMatrixphoto Member
    edited October 2016
    Hi Everyone
    Ive been working on my HSS problem and just got the Godox 360n with TTL so far results are good , I did some experimenting today.
    Here are results  1st Image no Flash
    image
    Second Image Flash was 5 feet away and I was using a Soft box with Diffuser in TTL 0 FEV

    image
    Third  Image Flash was 5 feet away and I was using a Soft box without  Diffuser in TTL 0 FEV

    image
    Forth  Image Flash was 5 feet away and I was using a  flash direct in  TTL 0 FEV ( it was a little over exposed but not bad 

    image

    I can wait do do some practical , I also could flash works better in HSS on TTL mode then manual Mode
    Ive also ordered a Beauty Dish can t wait for that to arrive.

    Lou Recine
    Owner Matrix Photography and design.
  • Hi Every 
    I finally got a chance to try out my Godox 360 ad  Nikon Flash in a practical situation, but was a but sadly disapointed.
    I used it with a 28" beauty dish. The first image was at a small wedding the pull back shot will give you an indication  of distance
    it looks like only a small portion of the groom was light no matter what FEC I was using. 
    Second shoot was this morning when I used flash with beauty dish image was totally under exposed no matter what I did ( Manual Full power FEC increase  ) . As soon as just used flash with supplied reflector and diffuser cover exposure after adjustment was  fine not quite sure whats wrong. I thought the 360 was more powerful then my SB-910

    Am I doing some thing wrong or is the 360  flash not powerful enough to handle modifiers ,  I thought the 360 was more powerful then my SB-910. I f I'm going to shoot direct I might  as well just use my sb-910

    Help any 360 II users 

    Lou Recine
    Owner Matrix Photography and design
  • TrevTrev Moderator
    edited October 2016
    Lou,

    There is no doubt that a 360 is much more powerful than your SB910, at all.

    Now, I don't use a beauty dish on them, I have an 19" NORMAN OCTAGONAL SOFTBOX which fits the Godox Light Head. (note the end fitting, same as diffuser as I used to have Quantum Flash and got it way back then.

    I can shoot directly against a sunset at ISO 200, 200th, f11 from 3 meters with it and only around 1/2 power.

    For quick shooting, I just know the settings to get in the ball park straight up, (above settings) and a couple of test shots am done.

    If I need to move it back for more room or more spread of a larger wedding party, again, up the ante to around 1/1 power, from roughly 6 meters back.

    That first shot you posted, a little trick, don't have the head pointed at the first person in line, have it go past that person aiming even slightly past the bride, since 'fall off' will give better and more even light on both subjects, as the groom has a lot more light on him.

    I do use just the supplied reflector which came with it quite a lot, like during ceremony (outdoors) as you may need the reach and ease without having a bulky softbox/beauty dish on it. Indoors, well bounced with supplementary on camera flash you are laughing, as I can have on camera flash to around -1.0 e/v and 360 on 1/8th power with plenty of light (ISO around 1200).

    With your comment on "(manual full power FEC increase)", I don't get since once in manual power, that's it, no FEC can be applied other than the variables common with flash in manual: ISO, f-stop, Power, Distance.

    This is with the original 360 I have, have not bothered to upgrade to 'II' version as I have the AD600BM's just purchased recently.

    Trev.

  • Hey Trev hanks for the help
    Ok my goal was to use HSS  to try and get a blurry backgrounds, but I guess the flash needs to be really close.
    I was shooting my 70-200 so even at f9 the background was blurry.

    So I try experimenting with how close needs  to be for HSS also I will test at maximum SS of 1/250

    Also I found the beauty dish was better in front then side.

    Lou Recine 
  • TrevTrev Moderator
    Oh, HSS, you lose more power when in HSS than in normal manual mode.

    Yes, I don't put beauty dish too far off to one side, a little but not like 'modelling' lighting.

    If testing in HSS, I would immediately drop to f2.8, ISO 200, then choose a shutter to suit ambient, then add flash (put in manual mode and just use a light meter if you have one) to test the distance. Make a mental note of that in full sun, then maybe ISO 800 in full shade to keep up the flash power a bit more.

    I am doing some further testing of my own this arvo to see what sort of reach I get around 1/2 power, as with the 600W ones I've found at 1/2 power it's only around 0.5 second to recycle, damn fast (as long as I remember to put my camera in Single Shot and don't 'double tap' the shutter if in CLH mode).

    When not in HSS, I keep the shutter at 200th, I always drop 1 click below sync speed unless I am just using an on camera flash, then it's 250th, just seems to work a tad better in that if using manual flash off camera.


  • Trev, when you have time tell us a little about the AD600BM.


  • TrevTrev Moderator
    edited October 2016
    Amedina, I shall, later on, in middle of doing edits and because I want to do as much shooting as possible in real life with them. I've shot a family, some headshots and 1 wedding with them under real circumstances and want to be able to have a consistent result.

    But I will say this, so far, so good. HSS works like a charm, (can shoot up to 8000th) and the best bit it's set up for 3 camera versions without any extra stuff needed where it auto detects your camera model. Nikon/Canon/Sony as the flash head has inbuilt radio receiver to detect each camera model. Battery also built in, no wire/cables hanging off it, no Receivers to plug in, all in a nice neat package. Not light, but not heavy also.

    You do need to obviously have the camera model trigger of course, all wireless 2.4Ghz, but it also will immediately convert to the camera you are using once you half press the test button on the trigger, so 2 shooters, 2 different camera models, and if only 1 light, it can be used so one can shoot say ISO 100, 200th, f11; the other ISO 200, 6000th, f2.8, (or whatever) on the same light, as long as you depress the trigger test half way (or just fire a 'test' shot with it but not the camera shutter) and it immediately jumps to say 'N' with a power setting the Nikon shooter put in, or 'C' with his/her power setting, or a Sony camera.

    NIKON SETUP (reason I say Nikon is because it's a 'package' deal, includes the trigger for Nikon

    CANON SETUP (ditto for Canon)

    MAIN STORE

    Original announcements:
    http://flashhavoc.com/godox-ad600-witstro-ttl-strobe-announced/
    http://flashhavoc.com/godox-x1-n-ttl-triggers-for-nikon-now-available/

    Trev:

    Edit:  Amedina, the light also has various mounts you can choose from, so if you already had Bowens Reflectors/Softboxes, that's what the 'BM' stands for, Bowens Mount, and is what I ordered.

    I should also say this company I have dealt with quite a few times, reliable, and shipping Internationally is free.


  • Thanks Trev.
    There is a TTL version, but I choose the manual version, although I have a question about my Interfit softbox, which I do not know what type of mount has.
  • MatrixphotoMatrixphoto Member
    edited October 2016
    Hi Trev
    Thanks for all help , went back to drawing board.
    1st was no flash  1/200 f 14 iso 200

    imagenext one was  1/200 f 14 iso 200 beauty dish with sock no baffleimagethird  was 1/5000 at f3.2  iso 200 beauty dish with sock no baffle

    image
    Flash was about 5 feet at full power to cover group .  Ok so If I need very little DOF I can use HSS if I need more I can use Maxxium SS

    Two more techniques in my pocket nice

    ( Most co-operative group ever )

    Lou Recine



  • Hey Trev

    Even tried it with baffle in beauty dish no sock  and it looks great
    Ist was no Flash 
    2nd is 1/200 at F18
    3rd was F3.5 at 1/6400

    Flash was about 5 feet away to cover group full power in manual 

    Lou Recine 

    imageimageimage
  • TrevTrev Moderator
    Lou,

    Don't forget, it's HSS, so those fast shutter speeds and very closed down aperture also indicates you have a hell of a lot of power, so you can set your Aperture first, like f8, (generally for people in 2 rows) then shutter and your flash power would be less therefore recycling times faster.

    Shooting at f14 or f18 with a HSS setup would be a considerable waste of flash power, unless you were doing that for testing purposes.


  • MatrixphotoMatrixphoto Member
    edited October 2016
    Hey Trev Actually the HSS ones were shot at  f3.5 and the ones with closed down aperture F18   were shot at 1/200 sec. 
    Il try F8 next time to see what  get.

    Lou
  • TrevTrev Moderator
    If you want the nice blurry background using a 70-200, obviously set your aperture first to f2.8, then adjust the shutter to allow for the background exposure you want, just a tad under, then just use flash power to suit and you won't need anywhere near the power.

    I was just saying having an aperture closed right down to f18 seems like a waste of a lot of flash power, thus reducing recycling times. Also doing it that way, you could have the flash head back reducing the lack of room to move because of the close proximity of it to subject.

    In HSS f8.0 would be a good start to have everything in focus on a 24-70mm.

    I generally work with head around 3 meters back (10ft) and softbox.


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