Comments on: syncing at higher than max flash sync speed .. http://neilvn.com/tangents/2009/06/23/going-higher-than-max-sync/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=going-higher-than-max-sync photography by Neil van Niekerk Fri, 10 Feb 2012 17:54:14 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Trev http://neilvn.com/tangents/2009/06/23/going-higher-than-max-sync/#comment-29705 Trev Tue, 01 Nov 2011 00:18:56 +0000 http://www.planetneil.com/tangents/?p=1209#comment-29705 Hi Ian, Excellent, thanks. I have just finished reading a lot of your posts on your site less than 2 minutes ago. :) Trev Hi Ian,

Excellent, thanks. I have just finished reading a lot of your posts on your site less than 2 minutes ago. :)

Trev

]]> By: Ian Casement http://neilvn.com/tangents/2009/06/23/going-higher-than-max-sync/#comment-29702 Ian Casement Mon, 31 Oct 2011 23:57:23 +0000 http://www.planetneil.com/tangents/?p=1209#comment-29702 Hi Trev, The cheat sheet is Pocket Wizard specific and was based on my results, so yours might be a little different. There's very little discernable difference between the X5d-R and T5d-R results. Using a speedlight on your hotshoe will just trick the camera into advancing the sync point and you just plug a transmitter into the speedlight or into your camera's PC sync. On Nikon, both are advanced for FP mode sync when higher shutterspeeds are used. With the Quantum D adapter the camera just 'thinks' it has a FP mode flash fitted and advances the sync point accordingly. Canon might be different. Rather than taking up Neil's message board, if you post your question on my blog I'll show how I fit the FW9T and various flashes all at the same time. Managing all the equipment and cables and be adaptable at the same time can be a right chore. I'm glad you found it useful. Hi Trev,

The cheat sheet is Pocket Wizard specific and was based on my results, so yours might be a little different.

There’s very little discernable difference between the X5d-R and T5d-R results. Using a speedlight on your hotshoe will just trick the camera into advancing the sync point and you just plug a transmitter into the speedlight or into your camera’s PC sync. On Nikon, both are advanced for FP mode sync when higher shutterspeeds are used. With the Quantum D adapter the camera just ‘thinks’ it has a FP mode flash fitted and advances the sync point accordingly. Canon might be different.

Rather than taking up Neil’s message board, if you post your question on my blog I’ll show how I fit the FW9T and various flashes all at the same time. Managing all the equipment and cables and be adaptable at the same time can be a right chore.

I’m glad you found it useful.

]]> By: Trev http://neilvn.com/tangents/2009/06/23/going-higher-than-max-sync/#comment-29650 Trev Mon, 31 Oct 2011 06:17:57 +0000 http://www.planetneil.com/tangents/?p=1209#comment-29650 Ian, Great write-up on that link provided. I must explore the use of my Quantum with *HSS*. I have the QFlash T5D-R, and the Quantum FW9T FreeXwire using the Quantum FW7Q FreeXwire Wireless Digital TTL Receiver on the T5D-R QFlash. Now, although I have the FW9T mounted under the Nikon D3, but using the Sync Cord from my camera's sync socket into the 'Sync In' on the FW9T instead of the D22wR QTTL adapter, can I still be able to utilise the HSS say at 1/2000th with QFlash set in Manual Mode at Full Power? In the write up you stated: "This was with a D3x, 24-70 f2.8 @100ISO using a FreeXwire transmitter and D22-wr adapter on camera, nothing else. The same can be achieved without the D adapter but using a speedlight in it’s place instead." What do you mean by that exactly and how do you use a speedlite in conjunction with the QFlash. Using a sync cord from speedlite to FW9T? I do have the D adapter but for a Canon, which I could use, but wanted to use this HSS theory on a Nikon D3s and QFlash. Judging by the sample shots you showed I am verrry impressed with the 1/1000th f6.3 up to the 1/4000th f2.8 range. The exposure table you provided is a great little cheat card, printed out and shall keep in bag. :) I presume you were manual full power on the Quantum X5d-R you were using. If I can get something similar with the 160Ws QF T5D-Rs then I would be happy. Great explanation once again. Trev. Ian,

Great write-up on that link provided. I must explore the use of my Quantum with *HSS*.

I have the QFlash T5D-R, and the Quantum FW9T FreeXwire using the Quantum FW7Q FreeXwire Wireless Digital TTL Receiver on the T5D-R QFlash.

Now, although I have the FW9T mounted under the Nikon D3, but using the Sync Cord from my camera’s sync socket into the ‘Sync In’ on the FW9T instead of the D22wR QTTL adapter, can I still be able to utilise the HSS say at 1/2000th with QFlash set in Manual Mode at Full Power?

In the write up you stated: “This was with a D3x, 24-70 f2.8 @100ISO using a FreeXwire transmitter and D22-wr adapter on camera, nothing else. The same can be achieved without the D adapter but using a speedlight in it’s place instead.”

What do you mean by that exactly and how do you use a speedlite in conjunction with the QFlash. Using a sync cord from speedlite to FW9T?

I do have the D adapter but for a Canon, which I could use, but wanted to use this HSS theory on a Nikon D3s and QFlash.

Judging by the sample shots you showed I am verrry impressed with the 1/1000th f6.3 up to the 1/4000th f2.8 range.

The exposure table you provided is a great little cheat card, printed out and shall keep in bag. :)

I presume you were manual full power on the Quantum X5d-R you were using.

If I can get something similar with the 160Ws QF T5D-Rs then I would be happy.

Great explanation once again.

Trev.

]]> By: Ian Casement http://neilvn.com/tangents/2009/06/23/going-higher-than-max-sync/#comment-29600 Ian Casement Sun, 30 Oct 2011 00:02:27 +0000 http://www.planetneil.com/tangents/?p=1209#comment-29600 The idosyncracy with this is that at faster shutterspeds you can actually get more benefit from your flash than you can using full x-sync. It may not be much more - maybe 2/3 stop @ 1/4000s - 1/8000s. The useful thing is that in bright situations, once you hit your max output and you have nowhere else to go, you might be able to squeeze a little bit extra power, or use a wider aperture, or benefit from a faster shutter speed, or even all those at the same time. I posted some samples and a write up here: <a href="http://www.commercialphotographer.co.uk/blog/?p=274" rel="nofollow">FP mode and HSS – exceeding flash sync with no loss in output.</a> I think that the reason why the faster end shutter speeds benefit more over the 1/320s+ shutter speeds is that at this lower end the shutter duration is almost double that of the faster 1/8000s shutter speed end with the second shutter curtain being so far behind the first. Essentially, this means the 1/8000s shutter is using more of the peak output/greater brightness and tail than the 1/320s is and there is less of the decaying tail being used. Although 1/150s to 1/180s might be the ideal flash duration to match shutter duration in this respect, the 1/250s and 1/300s of the Quantums turn in pretty decent results, and afford this little bit extra at the top end as well. The idosyncracy with this is that at faster shutterspeds you can actually get more benefit from your flash than you can using full x-sync. It may not be much more – maybe 2/3 stop @ 1/4000s – 1/8000s. The useful thing is that in bright situations, once you hit your max output and you have nowhere else to go, you might be able to squeeze a little bit extra power, or use a wider aperture, or benefit from a faster shutter speed, or even all those at the same time.

I posted some samples and a write up here: FP mode and HSS – exceeding flash sync with no loss in output. I think that the reason why the faster end shutter speeds benefit more over the 1/320s+ shutter speeds is that at this lower end the shutter duration is almost double that of the faster 1/8000s shutter speed end with the second shutter curtain being so far behind the first. Essentially, this means the 1/8000s shutter is using more of the peak output/greater brightness and tail than the 1/320s is and there is less of the decaying tail being used. Although 1/150s to 1/180s might be the ideal flash duration to match shutter duration in this respect, the 1/250s and 1/300s of the Quantums turn in pretty decent results, and afford this little bit extra at the top end as well.

]]> By: Lee http://neilvn.com/tangents/2009/06/23/going-higher-than-max-sync/#comment-25813 Lee Sun, 24 Jul 2011 01:29:52 +0000 http://www.planetneil.com/tangents/?p=1209#comment-25813 All, I just purchased a QFlash with the D adapter. My Nikon D3s was set to HSS. Playing around I attempted to overpower a very bright background using 1/1,500 shutter and f5.6. Much to my surprise it was able to balance the ambient and there was no black band at the bottom of the photo. That's how I ended up here trying to to figure this out. As I suspected, it's the result of the QFlash's longer flash duration. Thanks! All, I just purchased a QFlash with the D adapter. My Nikon D3s was set to HSS. Playing around I attempted to overpower a very bright background using 1/1,500 shutter and f5.6. Much to my surprise it was able to balance the ambient and there was no black band at the bottom of the photo. That’s how I ended up here trying to to figure this out. As I suspected, it’s the result of the QFlash’s longer flash duration. Thanks!

]]> By: Neil vN http://neilvn.com/tangents/2009/06/23/going-higher-than-max-sync/#comment-10407 Neil vN Sat, 23 Oct 2010 03:28:34 +0000 http://www.planetneil.com/tangents/?p=1209#comment-10407 <blockquote>Chuck Arlund posted an interesting article on his blog about <a href="http://arlundphoto.com/blog/2010/10/22/high-speed-sync-using-studio-strobes/" rel="nofollow">using studio strobes at higher than max sync speed</a>. Neil vN</blockquote>

Chuck Arlund posted an interesting article on his blog about using studio strobes at higher than max sync speed.

Neil vN

]]> By: Brian Carey http://neilvn.com/tangents/2009/06/23/going-higher-than-max-sync/#comment-8433 Brian Carey Mon, 09 Aug 2010 13:33:32 +0000 http://www.planetneil.com/tangents/?p=1209#comment-8433 Cool this is all very interesting and new territory. Should lead to some great photography! Regards Brian Carey Cool this is all very interesting and new territory. Should lead to some great photography!

Regards
Brian Carey

]]> By: Antonio http://neilvn.com/tangents/2009/06/23/going-higher-than-max-sync/#comment-3255 Antonio Fri, 03 Jul 2009 02:09:42 +0000 http://www.planetneil.com/tangents/?p=1209#comment-3255 Ooopsss. Sorry, after reading a bit more and notice that I need to change my Vivitars. But looking at the prices it also seems i need to work more. I guess I will keep shooting and change to at least two SB900's. Thanks Neil Ooopsss. Sorry, after reading a bit more and notice that I need to change my Vivitars. But looking at the prices it also seems i need to work more. I guess I will keep shooting and change to at least two SB900′s.

Thanks Neil

]]> By: Tim Wong http://neilvn.com/tangents/2009/06/23/going-higher-than-max-sync/#comment-3254 Tim Wong Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:34:22 +0000 http://www.planetneil.com/tangents/?p=1209#comment-3254 Neil i just test it out with canon 40d and t5d-r, i tried it with pc port direct connection or trigger by pocket wizard plus II. i got no luck to get pass 1/500 with full power of my quantum. maybe the freewire is the trick? Neil
i just test it out with canon 40d and t5d-r, i tried it with pc port direct connection or trigger by pocket wizard plus II. i got no luck to get pass 1/500 with full power of my quantum. maybe the freewire is the trick?

]]> By: Desmond http://neilvn.com/tangents/2009/06/23/going-higher-than-max-sync/#comment-3252 Desmond Sun, 28 Jun 2009 08:24:24 +0000 http://www.planetneil.com/tangents/?p=1209#comment-3252 Hi Neil , that all sounds pretty logical . On a side note according to my calculations high fp mode on a SB800 drops the power to around 27% [ 2.7m as opposed to 1.4 m ] . My D40 with its 1/500th synch speed and electronic shutter allows me to get the same distance throughout the range at 4m working distance with an SB24 . http://realsynch.blogspot.com/ . At F4 1/3200th sec iso 200 it catches most of 1/4 power from my SB24 giving me the same working distance as an SB800 at normal synch speed - except for the fact that the 1/500th synch speed gives me 2.5 times the effective power as well -compared to 1/200th synch speed . This gives me close to 8X the power of an SB800 at 1/3200th sec [ 1.4m as opposed to 4m ] - in practice it is around 2.7 stops more power . Of course that's nothing to do with your tests and a focal plane shutter but high -fp mode is a continuous light that gives the same distance with equivalent aperture and shutter speed changes - maybe if they used a smaller flash bulb it would be a slower release for the same power output which would be useful for 'trick modes' as in your experiments . I suppose if there was a way to do it better they would have done it by now :) ... perhaps if they made more electronically switched shutters it would be better for flash in sunlight . Hi Neil , that all sounds pretty logical .
On a side note according to my calculations high fp mode on a SB800 drops the power to around 27% [ 2.7m as opposed to 1.4 m ] .
My D40 with its 1/500th synch speed and electronic shutter allows me to get the same distance throughout the range at 4m working distance with an SB24 . http://realsynch.blogspot.com/ .
At F4 1/3200th sec iso 200 it catches most of 1/4 power from my SB24 giving me the same working distance as an SB800 at normal synch speed – except for the fact that the 1/500th synch speed gives me 2.5 times the effective power as well -compared to 1/200th synch speed . This gives me close to 8X the power of an SB800 at 1/3200th sec [ 1.4m as opposed to 4m ] – in practice it is around 2.7 stops more power .
Of course that’s nothing to do with your tests and a focal plane shutter but high -fp mode is a continuous light that gives the same distance with equivalent aperture and shutter speed changes – maybe if they used a smaller flash bulb it would be a slower release for the same power output which would be useful for ‘trick modes’ as in your experiments . I suppose if there was a way to do it better they would have done it by now :) … perhaps if they made more electronically switched shutters it would be better for flash in sunlight .

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