NYC photo shoot-out, Jan 2010 « Neil vN

NYC photo shoot-out, Jan 2010

January 24, 2010

An icy cold day in the Meatpacking District in Manhattan … and a brave model that insisted on going bare feet. That’s just a glimpse of the latest NYC Photog Shootout gathering that took place on Saturday. This shootout is part of the ongoing series of events arranged by Rob Nicholson. There were many familiar faces in today’s group amongst the new. Good opportunity to say hi to old friends, and make a few new ones.

As with the previous NYC shootout in June 2009 , I gave some instruction on some of the basics of manual off-camera flash to the groups. We worked with a Q-flash and a softbox (and sometimes without the softbox), and a bunch of Pocketwizards that I handed to anyone in the group who didn’t have. Strange thing – I ended up with one more pocketwizard than I started out with. Bonus! (Actually, if you were there and you’re missing one, let me know.)

It was a bit of the Wild West out there with the huge groups of photographers firing away.

The second group had an interesting addition to the shoot …

Hopefully everyone got some images they like, and even learned something about lighting. Thank you to everyone who came up to me to introduce themselves … and re-introduce themselves. ; )

And a little something for everyone else who wasn’t there – more info about the image at the top:

Since we already had soft available light there, we used flash with the softbox to control our lighting better. While the available light might have been soft, it was top-heavy. To effectively use only the ambient light, we would’ve been limited to posing our model in specific ways. But with using flash in a softbox, we now had control over the quality of light.

The approach there in using flash in this scenario, was to figure out the available light exposure. Once we had agreement on what our settings would be … we under-exposed by a stop. Here’s the resulting under-exposed available light image:

settings: 1/250 @ f5.6 @ 200 ISO

Now we have to add manual flash (in a softbox), at f5.6 @ 200 ISO … by controlling the other two variables – distance and power.

And there you have it:

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27 Comments »

I wish that I lived closer to New York, it sure looks like the kinda event that many of your followers would have given their (pocket wizard?) to attend. I have a question. Could this have been shot in TTL at -1 stop and FEC on the flash for +1 stop with much the same results?

Allan

Comment by Allan — January 24, 2010 @ 9:23 am
Allan .. Nikon and Canon handle exposure compensation differently for the automatic modes. And overall exposure compensation isn’t available with Canon when you shoot in manual.

I honestly have no idea how any particular camera would react in an auto mode, with EC and FEC set with TTL flash.

I strongly believe we just make it more difficult for ourselves then, since we now have to second guess the camera manufacturers’ algorithms they wrote for the camera and flash .. and then have to adjust both the EC and FEC. There are just too many variables.

For that reason, I find it simpler to work with manual exposure on my camera. Then my ambient exposure is whatever *I* say it is and should be. THEN I can add flash to the equation, whether manual flash or TTL flash.

This then eliminates one strong variable … ambient exposure. Then it becomes easier to make an educated guess about the TTL flash exposure. (As opposed to trying to figure out what TTL flash is going to do on top of an automatic exposure.)

So, sorry then. I can’t answer your question. I choose the simpler option. : )

Neil vN

Comment by Neil — January 24, 2010 @ 9:45 am
Allan, that wouldn’t have been possible because there was nothing to bounce your flash of in that spot behind the photographers where the softbox was placed. If strange enough there had been that possibility to bounce I think you could’ve managed keeping the exposure for ambient (-1 stop) and leave FEC at 0. If not play a little with the FEC ;)

Neil, please correct me if I’m wrong :)

Comment by Jonas — January 24, 2010 @ 9:57 am
Jonas .. bounce flash has nothing to do whether we use manual flash or TTL flash.

Bounce flash is a choice regarding technique. As is the decision to use a softbox. Or any kind of light modifier.

Manual flash / TTL flash .. that’s an entirely different decision.

We could just as well have used TTL flash here with the softbox if we had used a wireless TTL controller.

Neil vN

Comment by Neil — January 24, 2010 @ 11:22 am
Awesome shot! You make it all seem so easy! Hope to be able to attend a workshop one of these days!

Comment by Kathy Marciante — January 24, 2010 @ 2:54 pm
Did you mean to say manual flash at f/6.3 @ ISO 200 in the softbox?

Comment by Rich — January 24, 2010 @ 9:05 pm
Rich .. nope? I don’t see a typo there.
It’s f5.6 .. explain a little more where you get f6.3 or expect to see f6.3 ?

I do make mistakes here, so just want to double-check that I didn’t accidentally give incorrect info.

Neil vN

Comment by Neil — January 24, 2010 @ 9:12 pm
It could be me not thinking clearly after the Jets game but I thought that if your subject was one stop underexposed by the available light at f/5.6 then the proper exposure on her would be f/6.3 which you were supplying from the flash.

Comment by Rich — January 24, 2010 @ 9:25 pm
aaaah, now I see where the misunderstanding is.

“Here’s the resulting under-exposed available light image … settings: 1/250 @ f5.6 @ 200 ISO”

That image is one stop under-exposed at those settings.
(You can even see it in the image. It is under-exposed.)
I therefore need to use flash to give me correct exposure for those settings.
The flash adds the extra stop of light.

Also, f6.3 is a third stop from f5.6 … not a full stop.

Neil vN

Comment by Neil — January 24, 2010 @ 9:33 pm
Is this Photog Shootout open to amateur (like me) and professionals? I jumped over to the Facebook group and the writing seems to imply that it is (provided you can reserve your spot in the workshop before it sells out).

Comment by Stephen — January 24, 2010 @ 11:17 pm
Stephen, yes, it is open to everyone. But numbers are limited. And hopefully will be more limited in future to smaller groups.

The best is to become a fan of the page, and then be able to keep track of the next event.

Neil vN

Comment by Neil — January 24, 2010 @ 11:19 pm
After a few beers f/6.3 is the new f/8 :)
Just to make I’m with you, what was your incident reading and taking aperture using the flash in the second image?

Comment by Rich — January 25, 2010 @ 12:09 am
The aperture I used in the 2nd image with flash was f5.6 … as indicated in the text. : )

Neil vN

Comment by Neil — January 25, 2010 @ 12:11 am
Lightbulb went off- stepping away from keyboard :)

Comment by Rich — January 25, 2010 @ 12:31 am
Glad I could help. ; )

Actually, I think you were making it more difficult than it really is.

Neil vN

Comment by Neil — January 25, 2010 @ 12:39 am
Hey Neil, As always it was a blast working with you Saturday. One of the extra transceivers pocket wizards you have belong to me. You should see Rob M on or near the battery door.

Comment by Rob Munroe — January 25, 2010 @ 1:14 pm
Rob … great! I’m glad we’ll be able to get it back home. Drop me an email so we can arrange how I get it to you.

Neil vN

Comment by Neil — January 25, 2010 @ 1:24 pm
Neil
“The approach there in using flash in this scenario, was to figure out the available light exposure. Once we had agreement on what our settings would be … we under-exposed by a stop. Here’s the resulting under-exposed available light image:”

Did you spot meter on the white dress to find this available light setting or chimp to satisfaction then under expose, leaving the shutter speed at 1/250 sync speed?

Comment by fintastic — January 25, 2010 @ 2:27 pm
I could have. That would work. (Keeping in mind that we can’t simply spot-meter of this dress. We would have to push the exposure a bit to get correct exposure since the dress is white.)

What I did, (and instructed the group to do), was to take a general meter reading of the scene.

Neil vN

Comment by Neil — January 25, 2010 @ 5:07 pm
Neil,
Love the website and blog. I’d like to sign up for one of your two day workshops later this year. Any objection to non-Canon/Nikon gear? (I shoot Olympus). I’m assuming the concepts matter more than the specific dials and knobs?

Thanks,
Jeremy

Comment by Jeremy — January 25, 2010 @ 9:22 pm
Jeremy … using Olympus gear wouldn’t be a problem. I’ve had workshop attendees who use Olympus and Pentax and Sony as well.

The only limiting thing would be if you only had f5.6 zooms.

Neil vN

Comment by Neil — January 25, 2010 @ 11:50 pm
Neil…

What was the softbox you used?

Thanks, John

Comment by John — January 26, 2010 @ 5:52 am
John, the softbox i used there, is the Photoflex Q39 medium softbox 24×32. (B&H)

Here’s a description of the setup on I use with a speedlight in a softbox. On this photo shoot though, I was using a Q-flash in the softbox, specifically, the Quantum T5D-R. (B&H)

Neil vN

Comment by Neil — January 26, 2010 @ 9:20 am
Neil,

Thank you so much for teaching and sharing that day. I see that you found the person who gave you the extra pocket wizard by accident.

Comment by William Chang — January 26, 2010 @ 1:21 pm
Neil, thanks again for coming down and teaching us again. Its always great to hear what you can do with off camera flash.

Comment by johnlo — January 26, 2010 @ 10:55 pm
Thanks Neil! It was great meeting you! My fave quotes from you were “guys…guys…breathe!”

Comment by William Eng — January 29, 2010 @ 12:51 pm
William .. it was bemusing to watch some (actually most!) there just start firing away at a rapid rate without confirming what they’re getting. It also didn’t help my Q-flash in keeping up with so many people firing away … especially when they use the continuous mode / motor drive. You rarely ever would do that with manual flash in a static setup.

So yes, good advice then! Breathe inbetween firing shots off.

Neil vN

Comment by Neil — January 30, 2010 @ 4:47 am