Welcome to the forum!

As an adjunct to the Tangents blog, the intention with this forum is to answer any questions, and allow a diverse discussion of topics related photography. With that, see it as an open invitation to just climb in and start threads and to respond to any threads.

Nikon/Sony Vs Canon

MichaelVMichaelV Member
edited September 2014 in the gear
The Canon 7D Mark II was just put out and it seems like a big leap from the Canon 7D Mark I, but Im not so sure its a big leap over what Nikon (and now Sony) has out now.  Sony has been making some surprising big leaps just like Sigma.  I never thought I would be walking around a venue sporting my Sigma lens or pouring out such emotional tributes to my 120-300 Sports...the love of my life.  Will one day I be walking around the venue sporting my new Sony to go with my Sigma?  My have things changed...  It seemed like just yesterday the chap with his Sony Alpha and Sigma lens was getting poo-pooed by the guys wearing their "Canon" vests.  

While Canon is now on the same playing field with Sony/Nikon with the new Canon 7D Mark II, I was expecting a leap over the current Sony/Nikon lines.  I am waiting in eager anticipation to see what the new full frame bodies I am anticipating next year have to offer.  I see that Neil crossed over to the Nikon side of the trenches a while ago.  Im hoping Canons new line of full framers will keep me from crossing too...  

Comments

  • While the big players all have FF cameras that are basically equal (D4s and 1DX, etc), there is no equivalent to the 7D II. Nikon and Sony have nothing that matches this mini 1DX.  In other words, Canon is not on the same playing field in the crop sensor line but actually leading it, just like they did when the 7D first came out. Nikon then caught up with the awesome D7000 and D7100 but both of them now can't compare anymore. While one could argue that this statement needs to be qualified with "on paper based on specs"  since the 7DII is not out yet, I would disagree. Mistakes like the Nikon D600 or Canon 1DS MK III happen on occasion but are the exception, not the norm.  The 7D II will lead the crop sensor pack for some time.



  • edited September 2014
    have you  checked out Sony's New APS-C A77II ? Quite a remarkable camera. I have the A77, and FF A99, fantastic cameras. A77II worth a look if you're considering Crop Sensor.
  • MichaelVMichaelV Member
    edited September 2014
    Im going to wait for Bryan's review at The Digital Picture and DXOMark of the Canon 7D Mark II.  However, with Nikon and Sony on the heels of Canon my expectation is for really exotic and high performing cameras.  I want to see cameras coming from Canon which really push the limits.  

    I looked at Sony cameras back maybe 10 years ago, but concluded they were just not as good as Canon and never looked back at Sony.  From what I am reading (but not actual experience) it looks like things might have changed with them.

    I wonder if Neil could rent a Sony and evaluate it for us?
  • Neil vNNeil vN Administrator
    Sure, I could do that. My Paypal address is: neil@neilvn.com
    Just check what the camera is that you'd like me to test, and see what the rental fee is at lensRentals, and pay that into my account.

  • edited September 2014
    "Canon my expectation is for really exotic and high performing cameras"

    Sounds like you are a little hung up on specs? I use the 7D as a second body and find it performs just fine. Even at high ISO. The MK II will do much better since it is newer technology. I was just proofing some photos from a dark wedding a few weeks back and there were a few that were ordered that were taken with the 7D. I included one to show you that Canon has exotic and high performing camera right now in the old 7D. As a matter of fact, it outperformed my MK III on the dance floor because the body and lens combo just focused faster. 

    If you go to Fred Miranda Nikon section, there is a thread were they are discussing the 7D MK II and they are all wanting a Nikon version or they will jump ship. I guess the grass is always greener....

    The pic is ISO 3200 at f2.8 and while it has noise, it will never show up in prints below 20x30

    Use what you have now and don't worry what exotic spec is around the corner. Unless it makes your life easier :) 
  • edited September 2014
    I'd love to get Neil's opinion of any of thes,  Sony A99, A77II, A7, A7R, and A7S. All but the A77II are Full Frame. Without any Canon/Nikon Bias...If that's possible
  • MichaelVMichaelV Member
    edited September 2014
    Eventually, I believe, Sony and Canon will get married or merge so to speak.  The hints are there in this interview:


    Canon cannot compete with Sony sensors so they are starting to use them in their cameras.  In future pro bodies we might see Sony sensors.  Actually, Canon will first test out new technology in their compact camera line before inserting into the pro bodies.  For example, Digic 6 was first seen in the compact camera line and then it was inserted into APS-C.  Soon it will be in full frame bodies.  So the G7X has a Sony sensor and Im wondering if we might see a Sony sensor in the upcoming 5D Mark IV.  A Sony sensor massaged into a Canon body along with the usual Canon dynamics would be ideal.

    You are right its not all about specs, but many other things.  For myself, Canon cameras seem so much more natural to use than other bodies out there.  I do enjoy the joystick focus control and many other things which make Canon...Canon.  Sony might make a mean sensor, but I dont believe their cameras have that same kind of friendliness as Canon bodies.  Canon has a lot more experience with pro photographers than Sony and knows what they want/need.

    My prediction is eventually Sony and Canon will merge.  In order to compete against the Nikon I believe they will have to...




  • Hey Michael,

     

                 Aren't many of the Sensors in Nikon cameras made  by Sony as well? If Canon incorporates sony sensors, I don't think they'll ever merge, just use their technology as Nikon has.  As for Sony, Love my A77 and A99...

  • There are other reasons why I see Canon and Sony merging.  Cameras are 25% of what Canon does and 9% of what Sony does.  Canons main sales line is office imaging products like scanners and copiers.  Sony is more home entertainment and mobile products.  If you put the two companies together it would be an interesting synergy and would make an awesome conglomerate.  I dont think either company could survive or thrive on their own.  The combination makes perfect sense.  Sony/Olympus/Canon would be a powerhouse.
  • Boy would they be!  I'd have to agree.
  • Neil vNNeil vN Administrator
    I did review the Sony A7R  review: Sony Alpha a7R camera

    Nice camera, but I wasn't entirely enthused. Shutter was loud. There wasn't a huge range of lenses. So it felt like you'd be buying into a limited system. 
  •  

    Not if you buy the LAEa-4 adapter...now you have the full range of Sony/Minolta A Mount lenses at your disposal, along with sigma, Tokina, and Tamron, just to mention a few.

  • Neil vNNeil vN Administrator
    Not with blazingly fast AF, you don't.
  • edited September 2014
    Every camera has it's place and use, as you well know Neil.  My A99 will do 10 FPS, and the A77 12,  but only 6  with full AF
  • I use the Sony A99 camera for my purpose the A99 does a very
    good job.  I’m very pleased with the Sony
    lenses especially the Zeiss lenses.  I
    cannot comment on Canon or Nikon systems as I don’t use them.  Sony’s Achilles heel is its flash system, the
    HVL-60M flash over heats and shuts off for 10 minutes after a couple of shoots,
    when used off camera, making the flash unreliable.  The HVL-60M release mechanism is fragile and unreliable;
    it has to be taped in the locked position to keep it on the camera.

    Sony needs to come out with a TTL radio system like Canon’s
    system and a reliable flash to compete.


  • qrickman,

                    Couldn't agree more.  I use an Older Minolta 5600Hs along with the Sony HVL F43AM flashes...Zero issues with either. That Phottix Odin TTL system looks pretty darn sweet from everything I've read on it for Sony. Little pricey.
  • Qrickman,

                          also, FINALLY GREAT TO SEE ANOTHER SONY USER!!! We're like the step brothers of Canon/Nikon
  • qrickmanqrickman Member
    edited October 2014


    Penndragonn



     I have 2 Sony 5600HS, 2 Sony F42AM flashes; they have never
    over heated or slipped out of the hot shoe. 
    I also have 2 HVL-60M, I’ve done side by side test with the flashes only
    the HVL-60Ms shuts down because of over heating after about 10 shots max.



     Until Sony comes out with a fix or replacement for the
    HVL-60M that resolves the problems I can’t recommend the Sony system.  
    Sony is selling a $550 flash that does not
    work.
      As I have to much invested in
    lenses I’m not about to switch brands, I do like the camera and just invested
    more as I order the Sony 85mm F/1.4 Carl Zeiss lens, hope to have it before the
    weekend.



     Sony makes good cameras and lenses but if they want to
    compete with Canon and Nikon they have to do something about their flash system.



      Quin



  • Qrickman,

     

                   I have no need for the HVL 60 Flash. My 56000HS and two F43Am do EVERYTHING I need them to do. Why don't you get the 43's?

    I have the original Minolta 85mm F1.4 and Love it.  Sony def as good as Canon and Nikon, just not in the newer flash arena...

     

    Ditch the  60...

  • Neil vNNeil vN Administrator
    edited October 2014
    Oh, it's a Sony! 
    (Me getting confused with how Quin's Sony flash swivels and rotates.)



  • Okay, I missed the humor in that Neil.

     

    The Swiveling  and  rotating feature is awesome to say the least..

  • Update at last week’s PhotoPluse Expo in NY I found out that
    Sony has just come up with a fix for the overheating issue with the HVL-F60M
    flash.  It sounds like a firmware update,
    which slows down the recycle time of the flash so it won’t overheat.  I know it is a compromise to give up recycle
    time, but the flash is not usable the way it is now.

    Today I sent my two HVL-F60M to Sony for the firmware
    upgrade hopefully this helps.

    Quin

  • Take note. Canon has its own unique set of problems along with Sony. Ive visited Canons repair depot many times and had to send new gear right out of the box back.

    So whatever systek you get there are issues. A little bird told me Nikon has less issues but its too late. Im married to Canon.
  • I worked in manufacturing for over 35 years and trust me you don't want to know what goes on. Besides that they are all complex processes that not only depend on a companies ability to produce a quality product but depend on outsourced parts. We got into the Toyota manufacturing system which is the hub of lean manufacturing, etc. 

    It is no secret that the Sony sensor has been better than Canon for a while but all companies have their issues. If I want to create an oily effect on my image I'll mix water a and oil in a bowl. If I want a permanent effect I'll by a Nikon because with some releases oil comes free on the sensor.

    I have found Canon USA to be fast and efficient. Canon Canada has gotten better with speed but have never really felt comfortable with their service. I remember waiting at a local camera store while a customer chewed out the sales person because he was still waiting for a month to get his Nikon back. I have no info on Nikon USA.                    

    It is all relative.
                   
  • My biggest pet peeve about Canon is the finish on my 3000 dollar 5D rubbing off. Ahhhhh!!!! I just paid all this money for the best, professional quality and the black just rubs off??? Did the designers suddenly fall asleep on this detail? We are discerning photographers who take hours to edit a handful of shots and the finish just rubs off???

    Canon compacts are even worse. One minor jab to the retractable lens and the lens is done. One time years back someone asked me to take a photo with their compact and I ended up dropping the thing. Slipped out of my hand purely accidental. Their sleek Canon Elph was now destroyed. I looked back sheepishly apologizing. She said it was ok and left the scene.

    The toughest equipment I have encountered is my Quantum gear. Ive dropped the flash units and battery packs multiple times with no sign of damage.

  • That does not sound good. 5D2?  
  • This is the 5DIII. The finish also seems to rub off with S series compacts.
  • MichaelVMichaelV Member
    edited November 2014
    I just noticed a very KEY selling point for Nikon products.  Nikon has a 5 year warranty where Canon only has1.  That is a HUGE selling point especially for the wedding and event photographer set who uses and abuses the equipment.  If I had known about this than, quite honestly, I would not be using Canon and make do with Nikon.

    So you buy this 3000 dollar camera and a few years later its not working right.  At least you can take your chance with the Nikon warranty department.  Canon would be too bad so sad.
  • I have been using Canon gear since 2005 and have not experienced any breakdowns past the 1 year warranty. Not that this does not happen. For me from day one was the lens availability and cost compared to what Nikon offered back then. I never get mad at a manufacturer or service provider when I don't think they are providing satisfactory products or service - I just don't come back. Seem to me like you may need to think about a brand change to resolve the issues you are having. It may cost but if you are not happy.

    5 Years ago I said that if I lost my gear to theft or fire I would have real battle between deciding between Canon and Nikon. Not so much today. Canon has finally got their AF to a higher standard that keeps up to Nikon. Sensors are still not as great but my 5D3 has no issues with clean ISO at 6400 and my new 7D2 can produce very clean high ISO images as well. I'm used to the product lineup so I'm not sure which path I would take.  
  • The problems I have had with Canon are mainly flash related.  The Canon 580 EX II was in for service 3-4 different times before the 1 year service was up.  The Canon 24-70 II 2.8 was in for service  immediately after I received it.  The autofocus just was not working for me.  I think I sent in a body at one time for service.  

    Everything else has been fine.  

    However, I do know that Canon has technical bulletins at their repair depot for common/known problems.  These bulletins are not revealed to the public.  So there are a list of issues out there...  
  • Received my two Sony HVL-60M flashes back from Sony, they
    updated the firmware to eliminate the overheating issue.  I gave the flashes a good workout last week, not
    one misfire and there were no overheating issues.  I’m pleased with how the flashes are now
    working, but not happy that I had to pay $60 per flash.

  • Neil vNNeil vN Administrator
    That always annoys me to an extreme - when I have to pay for an update to a manufacturer's poor design. Whether photo gear or audio gear or cars or electronics or anything. Why is it now *my* expense.  So yeah ... I feel your pain.  But also happy you got it sorted out. 
Sign In or Register to comment.