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Adobe Creative Cloud

sasko1sasko1 Member
edited May 2013 in post-production
Hello.

I would like an opinion from you guys about new option Adobe Creative Cloud.
Right now I am in dillema, what to choose.

Options that I have:

- buy CS6 and LR4(or5) and stick with it for a while
- go to Adobe Creative Cloud and pay 50$ / month

The problem is, that my income is not that big 200$ / month and I don't know if it will be constant in the future. But as a company, I have to have legit programs. So I have to choose one option.

Currently I use CS4 and LR4 for few years and it suits my needs. (can't upgrade from here) so I guess LR6 would suits me for couple of years.

The only thing I am afraid is, what If I would need later also Premiere or some other feature from Adobe?

Also... what I'd like to know is, if I decide to go with CC, what happens if I can't afford it anymore? Can I keep currentt version I am left with nothing?

Dilema for me

Comments

  • TrevTrev Moderator
    What it boils down to from what I understand is you are like 'leasing' the product, so if you close the account, you lose access to it.

    I think Adobe has totally got it damn well wrong as their excuse/reason for doing this is to 'better serve the clients with cheaper options' but you never actually own it like you can a full download or a packaged product.

    I also think there are cheaper options than the $50 per month, it depends on what you want.

    http://www.adobe.com/au/products/creativecloud/buying-guide.html

    The other thing is internet service, I know of one guy who went that route, and he's had to actually re-install CS6 3 times, as you don't get a full installer, it's all based on servers, but he found a workaround during the install, he also managed to save the installer so he can at least install, but, if you lose internet connection from what I gather, you cannot get an install done until re-connection to the net.

    I believe that there are petitions now to Adobe slamming their decision of what they intend/have done.

    I shall upgrade to CS6 in the future, but then leave it at that, I want full control over anything I want.

    Although, there are benefits, you pay the monthly fee, and any upgrades are automatically done, so no need to buy a full version.

    Even at the $20 per month price I see, that is cheaper than a general upgrade working on the roughly 18 month turnaround of upgrades.

    Just I hate having control left to the 'gods in the clouds'.
  • sasko1sasko1 Member
    edited May 2013
    Thanks, Trev for the reply.

    If I'd be sure that I will be using only Photoshop than simple CS6 application as standalone would do.

    But I am afraid that after I buy D800, I'd start using also Premiere, Elements etc... which puts me into full package.

    It is not that simple for me. And I also don't like cloud service. I am good oldfashion guy, used to have things on computer.

    I guess I have a lot of thinking to do.

    Just a question: what means "limited acces to the service"? Won't I get fully functional aplication?

    I guess all depends of how my business will go in the near future.
  • TrevTrev Moderator
    sasko1 said: Just a question: what means "limited acces to the service"? Won't I get fully functional aplication?
    Yes, but, if something goes wrong, you need to be connected to net to re-install or fix something, then if you don't wish to pay any more, you no longer have the use of the particular application you were paying monthly for, be it Photoshop, InDesign, etc. so it's like a 'hire' of the programs.

    Keep paying, keep using, don't pay, no access.

    Yep, I too am of the old school and I want things installed from my own personal copies of programs.

  • StephenStephen Member
    edited May 2013
    There is a lot of debate on the internet about Adobe's decision to go subscription-only via Creative Cloud.

    I'm not a fan of Creative Cloud, because of these issues:

    1) There is a requirement that the software checks your subscription periodically. If you don't have internet access at the moment it needs to do a subscription verification, the software will not start up at all.

    2) If you save your work in Creative Cloud's file formats, and you later decide not to pay for the subscription, or as in scenario #1, the software fails a subscription verification check, you can't access your work at all. This is called "file lock-in."

    3) Make no mistake, Trev is right on this. You are leasing the software. You have no ownership, so the file lock-in problem is very real. You stop paying, all your work in files saved using Creative Cloud cannot be opened.

    4) Trev's scenario of having to re-download the software is also a valid problem.

    Note that the subscription model hurts small businesses and individuals and favors Adobe and large businesses.

    The subscription model favors Adobe, because it gains a very reliable source of income (every month as opposed to every few years with a new version). The model also favors large businesses, because they can turn on and off subscriptions as employees/freelancers come and go.

    However, it hurts small businesses and individuals, because their cash flows are not always reliable. Many people in this segment only upgrade periodically. It is especially problematic for photographers, because Adobe Camera Raw is tied to Photoshop versions. If you get the latest cameras, you have to buy either the latest Photoshop to access the raw files (or use Lightroom/Aperture/something else).

    My opinion is to buy CS6 software and sit on it as long as possible. Hopefully, Adobe will realize their mistake and still offer boxed software, or another competitor rises to challenge Adobe.
  • sasko1sasko1 Member
    Stephen said: My opinion is to buy CS6 software and sit on it as long as possible. Hopefully, Adobe will realize their mistake and still offer boxed software, or another competitor rises to challenge Adobe.
    If I do that and use it for let's say 3 years, will I be able to join CC if I eventualy decite to join?

    I also have doubts, that the price will stay the same after first year. Still have a week to reconsider things...

    Thanks for help.
  • TrevTrev Moderator
    sasko1 said: If I do that and use it for let's say 3 years, will I be able to join CC if I eventualy decite to join?
    Who knows? Something Adobe will need to answer, but like anything good, once they get too big for their boots, the small fry are left to swim without any flotation devices to help.

    @ Stephen: Yep, completely forgot about having anything stored there and a lock-out.

    As I said, having to *have* internet connection and all of a sudden it does a check of you and nothing, you are screwed. Besides, I don't want anything auto updating [apart from anti-virus, protection programs] and having Adobe root around in my system. [I turn off auto checks and do them manually]

    Very very rarely do I ever lose connection with the ISP I have, they are fantastic probably lost 2-3 times in the last 5-6 years for a total of around 8 hours [and once it was the digging up of a major news/connection/cable by contractors [5 hours lost] but at least I was able to keep working on images for that half day.

    Nope, not going to like this avenue at all.

    I never rush out and get the very next available update, until a bedding in period has been established, software or operating system wise.

    CS6 had some big issues when first released, and had updates, so I will get a copy now it's been out for a while in next couple months.

  • With an annual cloud membership, it will ask you to connect to the web every 30 days for a license check. Adobe say you will be able to still use the product for 99 days if you're offline.

    The other thing is that virtually every software license is just that: a license. You don't "own" the software you bought. They are just permitting you to use it under the terms of the license. Adobe is changing the way you are paying for this, trying to charge a monthly regular amount for continued usage rather than an up-front one time fee.

    There is a FAQ:
    http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud/faq.edu.html

    That said, I agree with you guys: I don't like it, and for the Adobe customer who is not upgrading instantly every single time a new release comes out, this represents a massive price increase and the added risk that when you stop paying the bill, you can no longer use the software. I think the casual users, hobbyists, "starving artists," etc. won't be signing up for this and it could make the CC version really just directed towards the corporate users and successful working professionals (like Neil!). That might actually be Adobe's long term plan although I struggle to see why this would make sense for them.
  • StephenStephen Member
    edited May 2013
    Trev,
    I need to correct myself. Your work will be saved locally for now, but if you don't pay the subscription for Creative Cloud, you will not be able to open your files.

    The problem, as you alluded to, is that in the future, Adobe can promote that you save your files "in the cloud" which is even worse: Don't pay, lose your access to your files completely. At least with your files on your machine or backup devices, you could conceivably resubscribe to Creative Cloud later to open the files. But storing them in the cloud sounds like a bad idea.


    Sasko1,
    Currently, Adobe offers a discounted subscription price if you are either a CS3-CS5 user or a CS6 user. However, this discounted price is only good for the first year. You are right to be concerned that the pricing can change, and unfortunately, even if you were a current subscriber, Adobe can change the rates on you the following year, and you're stuck anyway. At least with CS6, the last boxed copy, you can do whatever you want.

    You are right that all software is licensed. The question is availability. Generally speaking, if a software company goes bankrupt, you still can use your software. If Adobe disappears, you lose access to all the Creative Cloud software as soon as the software needs to do that subscription verification check.


    Nikonguy,
    I don't trust what Adobe says about their Creative Cloud product. Those terms can change with little or no notice.



    I also recommend reading the last few post from Thom Hogan on this issue over at http://bythom.com. He has some really good points about why the subscription service is not a good idea.
  • sasko1sasko1 Member
    Stephen, I am thinking if these days CS4 is good enough for what I do, with CS6 I could be good for 3-4 or even more. And I am hoping that in that time, Adobe will make something for us, small business photographers.
    About the price for upgraders, I am not eligable since I used some "gray product". I wanted first to try it and see if I will use it enough to be willing to spend so much on it. Now I decided to do it and considering all options. But I am more leaned toward buying boxed version and stick to it for a while.
    I see also Thom is confused and leaning towards this.

    Thanks for help
  • There is always another option. You could just move over to capture one. They dont require that you buy a subscription based service and i find their raw conversion to be much better in terms of quality and retention of details in highlights and shadows. It also isnt as much of a resource hog. But it does crash somewhat frequently.
  • HowieHowie Member
    edited May 2013
    But it does crash somewhat frequently.

    That makes it a non-starter for me, even as a LR replacement. For pixel-level editing, there's really no option other than Photoshop — at least for my workflow. I still edit in CMYK for prepress and sometimes even for general color correction. Further, I'm already fluent in PS and I don't want to learn another piece of software until I'm forced to.

    Re the cloud: Screw Adobe. I just bought CS6 and I may or may not buy LR5 because I really don't want to reward Adobe with any more of my money after the crap they've just pulled. I honestly don't think I'll be hobbled creatively if I never upgrade PS again. I realize there's a chance that CS6 won't run on future OSes and hardware, but I think that time will be far off. As a little test, I just tried PS6 (as in pre-CS) on Windows 8 and it runs just fine.

    Hell, depending on what MS does, I may never upgrade Windows again either. :)
  • TrevTrev Moderator
    Ditto Howie, succinctly said.

    I use Photoshop 99% of the time, having invested 17+ years in it I won't be a lemming and jumping off the cliff, nor 'Flying High' into the stratosphere.

    I have always upgraded, but in the end, Photoshop v3 [not CS3] can still do what I do with masks/layers but you always want the 'new toy'.

    Not this time.

    Adobe has screwed the pooch in my opinion and they then expect you to roll over and play dead. Nope.
  • sasko1sasko1 Member
    edited May 2013
    The only concern is, what if you'd need the latest camera raw file, to support your future camera? Should in that case Adobe provide you with version for CS6? Or in that case, you will be in need to join CC. :-/
    It is very frustrating... like there are only big companies using Adobe products. We, the small ones are left behind.
  • TrevTrev Moderator
    DNG Convertor would be my answer.
  • StephenStephen Member
    It's ironic that Adobe spent a lot of effort trying to get photographers to use DNG instead of the proprietary RAW format of cameras, and now they are essentially going for "file lock-in" with Creative Cloud. Therefore, I trust the DNG format even less now, since there aren't too many software that read it directly.

    I think if you need the latest RAW converter for the latest camera, support other software that has a RAW converter, and then have that software save to TIFF and make your edits on that. It's definitely not efficient, but it's hard to know what Adobe plans in the future concerning file formats. (Especially if Adobe mandates that your files be saved into the cloud.)
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