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As an adjunct to the Tangents blog, the intention with this forum is to answer any questions, and allow a diverse discussion of topics related photography. With that, see it as an open invitation to just climb in and start threads and to respond to any threads.
Gazebo Wedding Shoot
penndragonn2001
Member
Hey guys,
Need a little advice on an outdoor Wedding which will be held under a Gazebo. Depending on the weather, I'm anticipating lots of shadows. Should I place a flash in the Gazebo and flag the light up,? I know it also depends on the height of the ceiling as well. The Gazebo is at a Beach location so I may have to scout it out, take some gear and do some test shots. This will be my VERY FIRST WEDDING !! OMG!! It's a simple wedding ceremony, nothing elaborate, and a small informal reception afterwards. I guess if you have to do your first wedding and it's not as a second shooter, this small event will and should do nicely. I just want to do it right. I've done many different types of events, Parties, Auto Shows, Boudoir, Cityscape s, and Models, but Weddings aren't one of them. Any advice on possible gear I may need to bring for the shoot would be much appreciated, as well as advice in general. I use a Nikon D7000 and a Sony A77, both crop Sensor Cameras. My lenses, are Nikon 60mm Micro F2.8D, Nikon 35mm F1.8s, Nikon 105mm F2.8 VR, Sigma 14mm F2.8mm, and a Sony 18-50mm F2.8 The two lenses I don't have but am planning on getting before the shoot, which is in May by the way, are the Sigma 85mm F1.4 and the Sigma 70-200mm F2.8. either for my Nikon or my Sony. Yes I use two different systems, that's just me..I can use the lenses from my Nikon on my Sony via an adapter. Some things I like about the Sony such as the 24mp and the ability to crop much more, and other things I like more about the Nikon, such as much better low light performance and AF speed. The cameras are of no significance to me actually. Good Glass, Good technique. period. I know so many of you here do weddings and your advice has always been very informative, and comes from experience. Thanks in advance.
Penn
Need a little advice on an outdoor Wedding which will be held under a Gazebo. Depending on the weather, I'm anticipating lots of shadows. Should I place a flash in the Gazebo and flag the light up,? I know it also depends on the height of the ceiling as well. The Gazebo is at a Beach location so I may have to scout it out, take some gear and do some test shots. This will be my VERY FIRST WEDDING !! OMG!! It's a simple wedding ceremony, nothing elaborate, and a small informal reception afterwards. I guess if you have to do your first wedding and it's not as a second shooter, this small event will and should do nicely. I just want to do it right. I've done many different types of events, Parties, Auto Shows, Boudoir, Cityscape s, and Models, but Weddings aren't one of them. Any advice on possible gear I may need to bring for the shoot would be much appreciated, as well as advice in general. I use a Nikon D7000 and a Sony A77, both crop Sensor Cameras. My lenses, are Nikon 60mm Micro F2.8D, Nikon 35mm F1.8s, Nikon 105mm F2.8 VR, Sigma 14mm F2.8mm, and a Sony 18-50mm F2.8 The two lenses I don't have but am planning on getting before the shoot, which is in May by the way, are the Sigma 85mm F1.4 and the Sigma 70-200mm F2.8. either for my Nikon or my Sony. Yes I use two different systems, that's just me..I can use the lenses from my Nikon on my Sony via an adapter. Some things I like about the Sony such as the 24mp and the ability to crop much more, and other things I like more about the Nikon, such as much better low light performance and AF speed. The cameras are of no significance to me actually. Good Glass, Good technique. period. I know so many of you here do weddings and your advice has always been very informative, and comes from experience. Thanks in advance.
Penn
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Comments
Penn: Gazebo, full sunlight, full shade, beach, bright skies, white sand; what could possibly go wrong?
Mate, you are going to have to scout out the place, take a guinea pig along and do LOTS test shots.
If you are able, and can maybe strap a light on a monopod inside somewhere [maybe to one of the posts holding up the roof] behind you with flash lighting up one side and using speedlight on camera facing the other [bounce], you may stand a chance of equaling daylight/shade. Or even if you have two off-cam which will help immensely.
If you are *really* lucky, the inside of the gazebo will be white, giving lots room to reflect light. Worst case scenario it's made of timber with really 'nice' timber ceiling, you are in for a torrid time, not only because of the dark timber, but worse, the WB will be severely affected by that timber with light coming off.
The only other thing, maybe, if you have off-cam light and a softbox [small] set off to one side a bit, you might be able to use direct light.
Hope you have extra external battery packs attached, you will be chewing through the power like crazy.
You most certainly cannot over-expose the background, otherwise the whole feel of that beach wedding will be lost.
You will be at ISO 100, Shutter 200th, Aperture f11 or maybe if lucky go down to f9 or even f8, pray for a cloudy overcast day!
Go and scout it out Penn, take lots tests. Wish you all the very best.
Oh, speaking from experience, I had to opt for a monopod with Quantum light on strapped to the inside of a support post and on camera flash bounced, at a beach wedding a few years back.
Hint: If you have an off-cam flash, make sure you position it on *your* camera right, because if you orientate your camera into the portrait position, (counter clock-wise) your on-camera flash will be best suited to bounce from your left. Experience taught me that years back sad to say.
You confused with me with the orientation of my camera in portrait mode. When I shoot in portrait mode. I physically turn the camera to my right. So flash will be over my right shoulder. Or are you saying I should turn my camera to my left and bounce the flash up and behind my left shoulder. In either case, should I flag the Flash with BFT?
I see I'm def going to have to take the hour trip to the shoot site, but I knew that already. I have a 2' X 2' softbox I can mount to a monopod and then to a beam as you suggested...Using the softbox as direct lighting...you mean sort of as a keylight? perhaps at a 45 degree angle off camera left or right? Seems daunting but once I get there and take some test shots with flash I'll figure it out I suppose. If I'm lucky, as you stated it will be cloudy/overcast day. I have all the way until May to get it worked out. I'm sure I'll be asking many more questions between now and then. You guys will get sick of me! LOL Thanks again Trev
All very confusing so much light in a small space Trev. Trying to get a handle on this and a mental picture. I guess, I'll have to wait a few weeks or days before the shoot and as you stated, do a lot of testing with a friend to determine best action, once I know the time Of day this will happen. I'm thinking the video LEDs might just be the trick. Thoughts?
99% of people I know when doing portraits, turn camera to the left, right hand over the top, I never use the bottom shutter, as I have to change my hand positioning and therefore I can orientate easily from Landscape to Portrait.
Light, overpower the sun. You had better believe it, you will need a ton of flash to equal the beach scene, in fact you probably would be at f13 if it's a really bright day.
Up to you if you use off-camera flash, and I only said monopods as having lightstands would be very cumbersome and unsightly if legs in view, as you would also need to come right back, take an overall shot of the whole gazebo and if you have two lights strapped behind posts on monopods, you will not see anything protruding out hopefully, plus you will have power then.
Settings for the lights, that's entirely up to you as to what you have re off-camera flashes.
I certainly would think at least 1/2 power + if just speedlights.
I use around the 320W lights, and I am around 1/2+ power in the outdoors [no gazebo] and around 6-7 meters back so they don't intrude on guests.
Video lights would barely make any difference Penn, they would hardly light up their eye sockets let alone a full wide spectrum of a group, totally inadequate in daylight, let alone trying to equal sun, plus they have a massive fall-off anyway. No you need something strong.
Re flagging with BFT, you would need to test, as sometimes when I am in a gazebo and still have to achieve the f9 aperture even, I will forgo the BFT, zoom the flash head in to maximum be it 120mm or 200mm and hope for a bigger bounce.
If the wedding is late, facing sun, well you certainly can create some great shots, and 'most certainly' do the silhouette shots. Nope, you will be very surprised at just how much you will need, trust me.
You will almost certainly need a minimum of 1 off-cam and 1 on-cam flash. Remember, if you have a ton of light, you can dial them down and get great recycle times, won't miss important shots, but, if you don't have enough light and need to compensate with ISO/Aperture with flash at full power, you will miss shots waiting for recycling.
Test and test, is my advice. Oh, make sure you test at the time the ceremony is also and reasonably close to the day so you don't have surprises where sun is, brightness, etc.
Sun is generally to my left [as you can see], it's bright sky/sun, bright background.
They are standing in shade, palm fronds overhead, backs to sun, and even with groomsmen facing the sun they are really in FULL shade because of the trees.
I have 2 lights set up left/right around 6-7 meters back. No diffuser, full blast, PLUS I still have my speedlight to augment the lights. This was shot at ISO 100, Shutter 1/200th, f11 and shot at 1.41 pm, so really bright.
Off-cam flashes set to around 1/2 + 1/3rd, only 2/3rds down from full and they are around 320Ws.
Speedlights are only around 75-80Ws.
I have to have the lights crossing over @ 45 degrees, since the positioning of the bridal party, horseshoe shape, and if you look at the left bridesmaid arm you can see it's lit up from the left light which is pointing to the groomsmen.
So, yep, if bouncing to meet those conditions of light you will need a truckload of light.
Even with my set up I cannot fire rapidly, with around 1.2 secs recycling time but I can get away with it by timing the shots.
This also was shot wide angle and you need to be able to light up the people properly.
this was shot later in the afternoon, around 4.15 pm, ISO 100, 1/200th, f9.
Wow, you laid it out completely and thoroughly! Thank you so much! I will let you know when the time comes after my test shots in May. Excellent! Nice Pics!
Last questions, for now! :-) Trev, If shooting outdoors, for any event, why exactly does one even need to overpower the sun anyway. All of my experience so far has been with indoor shots, with the exception of Auto Shows that were outdoors...I didn't even need flash except to take out shadows...With so much sunlight, why the need for any additional flash/strobes, etc other then to eliminate shadows? And, what about using the 300-500 bank of LED video lights, will this work in a shaded Gazebo?
Many people are amazed when I rock up with 2 off-cam and 1 speedlight, and they even ask, 'but it's full sun, why?'
I take the shot [usually with their backs to the sun] and show them the back of LCD, and their jaws drop, amazed at the difference, especially when I show them a shot [no lights] exposed 'correctly' for the background couple are that black.
So much for a wedding photog I ran into last week at the same park when shooting, and he stopped and asked why all the flash power, that he's an 'available light shooter' and I stole Neil's saying in a thread there with a light set up, I merely held up the lights, said they are 'available' and I will use them.
Even with a speedlight on camera shooting back against a couple in a outdoor ceremony, as they walk down, I am usually at +3.0 ev on speedlight to compensate.
Now, that is obviously because of shooting against the light, if sun is on them, then the flash is like you say, a little bit of blip to help fill eye sockets.
LED lights, if you have massive amounts, maybe. But they need to be damn powerful and lots of the little suckers.
I had an sb800 in a white umbrella, otherwise it was nearly dark inside the gazebo.
Trev, beautiful shots!
It's also where you could have even opened up the aperture more if you had to to get more power [obviously you had room/time/space] as the background is pretty dark and and a slightly more over-exposure of it would not matter in the slightest.
Penn, will have to deal with lots more light if it's sunny because of the very nature of the background.
The only saving grace also I forgot Penn is the location of the sun. If it happens to be behind you, ie the background is 180 degrees from the sun, that will be the darkest part of the sky and you could open up aperture slightly more also.
Actually MIke's photo for you Penn to observe of what you would be dealing with as you can see the 'fall-off' of light at the top corners and sides from being close and in an umbrella, so now imagine trying to get a wide group shot of a wedding party, celebrant/official, you are going to need those lights.
You have to just think methodically, try to ignore what's around you, concentrate on what's in front of you, the bridal party and background.
Have loads of time to get it right once weather breaks in spring/Summer to get it correct. I'm sure I'll have more questions between now and then. Thanks to all.