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Sony A7RII - The Canon 5DSR killer

MichaelVMichaelV Member
edited June 2015 in other systems
Check this out. 42 megapixels, compatible with Canon EF lenses, monster ISO, mirrorless, more compact, internal image stabilization which will stabilize any lens ...wow!

Read this article...http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2015/06/10/sony-creates-a-monster-the-new-a7ii-r-see-my-hands-on-report/

I was thinking of the 5D Mark IV and the 5DSR, but now Im thinking Sony. The question is can it focus my Canon lenses fast and well?


  • It does have all exciting features. The only thing keeping me from getting it is just the price tag. :p
  • The feature list is simply amazing and justifies the price.  If Canon came out with a similar body, they would want double.  Think of this.  Any lens you put on this camera is stabilized through in-camera body 5 axis stabilization.  Look at the six digit ISO setting.  It can not only accept Sony lenses but it can accept Canon lenses.  Imagine if Canon came out with a body which would accept Nikon lenses with an adapter.  $3000 is a sweet price tag if it can in fact focus Canon lenses just as fast as a Canon body and accurately.  
  • Neil vNNeil vN Administrator
    Not the A7R II ... but this might be relevant as a sober look at the hype around mirrorless cameras. 

    The Mirrorless Myth: 
    The Sony A7 II compared to the Nikon D750

  • edited June 2015

                 I'm a Sony A7 and A6000 shooter. Formerly Nikon. Let's face it Neil, mirrorless is where it's all heading.  EVF are awesome!  You see the outcome before you take the picture, and as you're making changes, i.e. Shutter speed, ISO, Aperture, and Exposure compensation.  Chimping, as they call it, then becomes a thing of the past for the most part. As much as Canon and Nikon try to deny it...It's here and getting better by the month.  The new A7RII  with a Metabones Canon adapter will focus fairly quickly, but not quite as fast  as if it were on a Canon camera, from what I've read so far...They are almost there. It's literally only a matter of  time. VERY short time. Once that happens, Canon shooters can then keep all their great glass and switch to a much smaller bodied camera with stellar features. Best of both worlds...

                 You can use  ANY lens made  by any lens manufacturer in the world on Sony NEX E or Alpha FE A7 series cameras with an adapter, plus all your lenses will be Stabilized.  It's not Hype Neil...Sony is practically there. Just  saying.  One mans opinion is just that. An opinion. You can find numerous contrary opinions as well. Comes down to the type of shooting you do, You don't need hundreds of lenses to make a system, just 4 will do EVERY kind of photography you could ever want. The multitude of lenses available for any system is not an argument  at all. I hear that argument all the time concerning the limited selection of lenses for the SONY A series cameras, even from Sony users...What a joke.  70-200mm F2.8, 85mm F1.4 or 1.8, 17-35mm F3.5 G, and a 50mm F1.4. Those are ALL that's needed in ANY camera system. You now have all the bases covered....ALL OF THEM. Get darn tired of hearing the Lens argument issue. Again,  no disrespect intended, but one gets tired of hearing others slam a Camera simply merely because they are entrenched in  another system.  A good camera is a good camera, regardless of who makes it. Period.  My 2 cents worth. Stepping off my pedestal.  

  • MichaelVMichaelV Member
    edited June 2015
    It sounds like the Sony A7RII is a much upgraded system when compared with the Sony A7II and A7 series. In fact, the A7RII sounds like it should be renamed A7III. I hear the A7II and A7 would focus somewhat slowly, but the A7RII focuses almost as fast as the Canon.

    So it sounds like either this is the version to get OR maybe the next version is the one to get. Sony has either hit the nail with this one OR will hit the nail in 1 or 2 years.
  • MichaelVMichaelV Member
    edited June 2015
    Besides the high ISO combined with high megapixels, this is what really caught my attention.  Lets be realistic though.  This model hasnt come out yet, ships in August, and it has NOT been given a thorough review by any known trusted reviewers.  So far we have some paid sponsors talking about it.  However, this looks very promising and if it really does what they say and works well with Canon lenses...if the non-paid non-sponsored reviewers out there gave this one a green light I would first rent one from LensRentals and if it passes my muster I would certainly buy it and SELL my Canon bodies.  Im really looking for a body which can blast through the 3200 ISO setting which I seem to use a lot on the 5D Mark III.

    Look at this video...this does look like what I would expect in a next generation camera.  So far Canon has given us, in my humble opinions, incremental upgrades.  Whats going on in this video is quite a bit more than incremental.

  • dbrunodbruno Member
    Penn - regarding your comment about EVF: I'm not at all familiar with mirrorless cameras, but I do own a Canon S5 IS Powershot, which has, I believe it's called, an electronic viewfinder. I can switch between looking through the eyepiece and looking at the screen to compose the shot.

    When I bought my T3i, I chose that over the straight T3 because it didn't have a flip-out screen. Novice that I was/am, I thought it would behave excatly the same as the Powershot, but I was wrong, and in order to do that I would have to switch to Live View, and I very rarely use that except when the camera is set on a tripod.

    The new mirrorless cameras - do they behave like the Powershot, where I can switch back and forth between eyepiece and screen?

    Thanks - Dave
  • This body would be the be all and end all.  It would be exactly what I want with the megapixels, the low light performance, "in-camera" stabilization making any lens stabilized, etc.  We wouldnt be sitting here wondering what a 24-70 2.8 II IS would be like.  We could actually live it out with this body.  This would be my "dream" camera body.  Well, lets wait until its released and kick the tires to see if this is the "one".
  • Something to consider, if you want to use a TTL off camera
    flashes like the Profoto B1your out of luck with Sony.  There are very few TTL radio flash triggers available
    for Sony cameras.

  • MichaelVMichaelV Member
    edited June 2015
    In NJ, NY and the east coast for that matter we shoot in these cave like places where the owners of the cave dont know the first thing about lighting. They tend to think the house lights will do just fine in your quest for light. Whenever Ive gone far from here it seems the event organizers know a little bit about lighting and make sure to have plenty of stage lights going at full blast. I love those huge powerful hot lights. Lights designed for plays and musicals...that kind of light. Im now at the Sheraton in Philadelphia where I get that caveman feeling. I push the 5D Mark III to 4000 iso cringing while I hit the button...hope no one notices.

    The Sony A7RII sounds like the answer to my dreams. Lots of ISO and lots of pixels to defeat the event organizing cavemen who dont believe in wasting the Earths resources with huge funky hot lights.
  • Dbruno,

                           If you mean does it turn off EVF when you take you eye away from camera and automatically turn on rear LCD, yes, and opposite as well.
  • dbrunodbruno Member
    Wow, even better. On the S5, I push a button to scroll through eyepiece to screen.
  • edited June 2015
    I love to read comments that state "Mirrorless are the future" etc. Mirrorless sales are so far behind DSLR that there is no real argument here. They have not caught up and they will not any time soon. Mirrorless sales were FLAT compared to DSLR for over 1 year while DSLR at least saw spikes!
    There is a reason that Nikon and Canon have not jumped on the bandwagon....they know the market and what pros want. 

    Mirrorless cameras still need to mature...a lot.

    This latest Sony camera will not change anything. Once they make a mirrorless that performs on par with a DSLR, count me in! 
  • Oh they'll be there Trevor...Count on it. It won't be nearly as long as you think.  In any case, we all shoot what we like, and if something comes along that can compete, and has all he features and then some, that we want, we switch/upgrade,,My Sony's have surpassed what even I though they were capable of. As much as I loved my Nikons, the shear weight loss alone was a huge plus for me.
  • MichaelVMichaelV Member
    edited June 2015
    We shall see in August when this beast rolls out. Can it really produce images as good as the 5DSR? I do realize a lack of support in some areas like Profoto, etc. We shall see in August... One thing is for certain. I dont see any pro photogs wondering around with a Sony right now. Seeing a lot of Nikon, a lot of Canon, but nothing else. I am amazed by the spec sheet...
  • Michael,

                                   you don't see many photogs running around with Sony mirroless cameras yet due to one main thing...PERCEPTION. Clients see these smaller FF cameras and think, "What, I paid all this money for a photographer and he shows up with a Point and shoot camera!"  wish people would worry more about results then the size of a camera. Neil and others are right in that respect. It will take FOREVER for people to look beyond the physical size of a camera...For this Perception reason alone, I have Vertical grips and use Minolta glass with the Sony LA-EA4 adapter...This gives the camera bulk and size, for those oh so critical clients looking for BIG cameras.  What a joke.  With camera technology today, MOST clients, predominantly Weddings and the like, wouldn't know the difference with image quality between a Point and Shoot and a Professional Camera...Seriously. We're not talking extreme low light usage or ANY of that...just your normal pictures...Given proper light, just about ANY camera can do the job. You all know I'm right.  Most won't admit this, but for the most part it's true. Adding Photoshop/Lightroom increasingly cements my argument. So why do we keep upgrading? Big boys toys, and the need to always have the next best thing. There are indeed tradeoffs between Point and shoot cameras and Pro DSLR and Mirrorless cameras, of course.  Okay, off my pedalstool now.
  • MichaelVMichaelV Member
    edited June 2015
    Let me just put it this way. This weekend and most every time I go out to an event where I cant use flash I could use more ISO. Sometimes I cant use fast primes and have to use teles or superteles where the fastest aperture is 2.8. I usually go to ISO 3200 and use DXO Optics Pro to cut the noise down.

    The look of the camera doesnt matter to me. What really matters is how it performs. I would love to push past ISO 4000. Usually when I get past 3200, the noise becomes more than I prefer. The resulting images to my eye become unacceptable. However there are times when I do go higher because I need speed and cross my fingers on quality.

    Usually high megapixel and high iso do not make a good mix thus I await the reviews when it comes out in August.
  • TonyTTonyT Member
    A friend of mine is churning out some great work with Sony gear and picking up a few awards along the way. 
  • Tony,

    Great work for your friend, but some of the photos in the album of One-Click-Photographer seem over-cooked to my liking.

  • TonyT

                                            Thanks for the link. All the pictures look great.
  • Trevor,

                    Looking again at your graph, I see the gap between DSLR and mIrrorless has gotten much smaller overall. This new Sony A7RII will be a nice edition to the Sony line, especially if it lives up to it's expectations.
  • TonyTTonyT Member
    Amedina...I don't think they look over cooked but we all have different tastes. He's doing very well people are liking his pictures and he's booked up with weddings for the next 18 months or so.  Look forward to seeing what the A7RII and produce, he's got it on pre order.

    Sony is turning out some impressive gear both bodies and lenses, ok the lens range isn't that ok Nikon and Canon but they've got most bases covered.

  • edited June 2015

    Why do people keep referencing lenses? These are all ANYONE could need ...Period.

    70-200mm F2.8, 85mm F1.4 or 1.8, 17-35mm F3.5 G, and a 50mm F1.4. Those are ALL that's needed in ANY camera system. You now have all the bases covered....ALL OF THEM. Get darn tired of hearing the Lens argument

  • Pick a gear that suits one's needs. Surely people have different needs. "Better" is only when features meet the (general or specialised) needs of that person.
  • Agreed rany,

                                  people tend to get carried away with how good their gear is compared to others. I've been a little guilty of that at times as well. Whatever gets the job  done. The New Sony A7RII should be an excellent piece of gear. Every camera has short  coming's,  If there was one camera that met EVERYONE's needs, We'd all have it and  all the other camera  manufacturers would have to duplicate it or go out of business. Imagine that?

  • TonyTTonyT Member
    Incase you were wondering .... I was praising Sony. :-)

  • No problem, TonyT...Lots of great cameras out there...
  • MichaelVMichaelV Member
    edited June 2015
    I might or might not get the A7RII.  It all depends on the future line of Canon.   I hear Canon is going to produce a 5DX/1DX Mark II with an 18 megapixel sensor for low-light.  The 6D Mark II will become the new all-around full framer.  Problem is sometimes we need to crop and the extra megapixels is a benefit.

    My choice in cameras will depend upon many factors like the AF speed of the A7RII with Canon lenses, etc.  It will also depend upon what Canon puts out.  Sounds like the next 6D might be the bread and butter wedding camera while the 5DX/1DX series will become fast sports cameras.  Finally, for those desiring something more akin to medium format you have the 5DS/5DSR.  

    Really, for me, it comes down to the 5D or 6D series cameras.  The 1D series is much larger and heavier thus harder to pack around.  Its also twice the price.  I would rather have two 5ds versus one 1DX.  The 1DX series also uses its own batteries which cant be shared with the 5Ds.  I can get the 5Ds battery for $14 each.  So the 5D/6D series is far more practical for the event shooter.  The 1D series is for those who want the very best Canon can offer and dont mind its not-so-practical nature like double the weight, expensive batteries, etc.

    Im 100% certain when the A7RII comes out there will be a lot of reviews.  So my mind is open.  Keep in mind the A7II could go head to head with the 5D Mark III except in area of focus speed, accuracy and noise.  The A7RII sounds like a huge upgrade.  

    Im looking for something practical which can go above 4000 ISO but produce the same image quality I am seeing at 3200 ISO with the 5D Mark III.  So at least a 25% improvement in ISO versus what I have now.  We shall see!  
  • edited June 2015
    I thought this was a good camparison..

    Click Here:

  • Michael,

                     You're a Canon guy thru and thru.   And nothing wrong with that..
  • Oh no, I would get the A7RII in a second, but Im waiting for the reviews to come in. I believe they are in stock now. So Im waiting.

    There are a few features which I would really enjoy such as in camera stabilization, half the weight and the way it focuses tracking the subject around. However, I want to know about focus speed and to see how it handles....ISO performance. So Im waiting for the reviews. Then I would rent it first and make my decision.
  • TonyTTonyT Member
    My mate has just received his A7RII, he's going to put it through its paces this coming week and then use it at a wedding the following weekend.
    I'm interested to see what he thinks of it after a thorough testing, so far he says the detail in just insane.
  • Here is the first test, High ISO performance vs 5D Mark III
  • MichaelVMichaelV Member
    edited August 2015
    My eyes might be different versus others. The Sony looks a little noisier. Opinions? Doesnt the wood at ISO 3200 look rougher for the Sony?
  • MichaelVMichaelV Member
    edited August 2015
    I should probably re-name this thread...A7RII:  NOT a 5DSR killer...

    Noisewise, the A7RII samples Ive been seeing are about on-part to slightly worse than the trusty old 5D Mark III.  In fact, when downsized, the 5DSR's images are actually slightly better than our 5D Mark III.  Keep in mind, this would add a few steps in post-processing if you were to use the 5DSR as the low light event body rather than the 5D Mark III....downsizing each photo in post and organizing it all on the computer.  It seems simple, but would be closer to nightmarish for myself.  Im wondering if the A7RII images were downsized like the 5DSR...would they better compete against the Canon 5D Mark III?    

    I see the A7RII as an alternative to the Canon products, but not really a replacement.  The major features I would enjoy in the Sony is in-camera stabilization, smaller sizer/lighter weight, Wi-Fi, and the next generation-like focus system.  I believe the replacement for the Canon products is in the Nikon family of products.  Many people have turned to Nikon in the last year or so and I cant blame them.  

    Sony is trying very hard and plans on focusing all of their efforts at the full-frame market.  Sony has also opened a "professional services" so as to better compete.   Nikon seems to have defended their territory (and taken some from Canon) quite well.  I dont know anyone who has switched to Sony.  I dont see anyone sporting a Sony at the various events I attend.  However, I regularly see Nikon products.  I did see someone sporting an A7II at one of the events I attended, but it was on a tripod doing video.

    For an enthusiast I believe the A7RII is ideal.  It has all the bells and whistles plus the lightweight for traveling across Europe in grand fashion.  For someone who uses these bodies for videography, the A7RII is the one to get.  Now for professional event photography, Im still out and uncertain on a conclusion.  The overall handling of the body is very important.  All the buttons, wheels and the joystick result in a fast handling body ideal for event-work.  The heft of the 5D with battery grip makes it ideal for holding and turning.  While not ideal for traveling and moving about, the heft of the 5D is a plus for the event photographer who needs to properly grip the camera.  Im not sure how someone would get a good grip on the Sony or how they would navigate through the various menus during a fast paced event.  Each button, wheel and my favorite joystick on the 5D are all there for a specific purpose and cater to the professional.  The menus on the Sony seem to cater to the enthusiast who might have the luxury of time.  I will admit this is just my opinion on the design.  You really have to head down to the camera store to form your own opinion.  Maybe even rent one for a few days and see for yourself.

    In August (this month), September or October the next 5D will be announced.  I am hearing October at the Javits Center.  The 5D Mark III was announced in March 2012, Mark II September 2008 and 5D August 2005.   Im expecting a new much faster processor and slightly more megapixels.  I believe the 5D design will remain the same.  If you change the overall design of a body significantly the result is unfamiliarity and thus someone who has been using the 5D series for a number of years will be put off.  This has been a great design challenge and so they cant incorporate everything you may want on to one single body.  In the 5DSR they had to give some things up, but the reality is many of us dont really use all the bells and whistles on the camera.  I have not had a hankering ever to produce a video on the 5D Mark III for example.  I do short casual videos with my cell phone and sometimes the compact EOS M, but not the 5D Mark III.  I personally would easily trade the video capabilities for wifi or for a larger faster processor, etc.  If I was into pro videography, I would get an actual video specific pro cam corder...the kind I routinely see being used by videographers at weddings and events.  I rarely see anyone carrying around a 5D to shoot some video and almost never see someone shooting video with the Nikon.
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